ICCN
Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism
IAF Interviews Downtown Disciple’s Pastor Deb Griffin
Debbie Griffin
Lead Pastor - Downtown Disciples, Des Moines, Iowa
Interview conducted November 2025
At the end of 2024, Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers President Jason Benell attended a few events held at churches and started a series of interviews called Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism.
About the Series
Questions are asked of religious leaders via email.
Topics include their views on:
Their faith
Their congregations
Christian Nationalism
Answers are unedited, except for corrections to misspellings or grammar.
Responses come directly from the interviewees.
Purpose
The purpose of this interview series is to help us better understand how the religious and non-religious view the ongoing social, political, and cultural movement known as Christian Nationalism.
Get Involved
You are encouraged to:
Read the interviews
Come up with your own questions
Submit them to IAF
If you would like follow-ups, further discussion, or want to provide comments, email IAF at president@iowaatheists.org. We can possibly share your input with both members of IAF and the individuals being interviewed!
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In my opinion Christian Nationalism is a co-opting/hijacking and abuse of Christianity for the purpose of political power and gain. Most people however, define Christian Nationalism as an ideology or form of religious nationalism that promotes Christian views to achieve political and social dominance. I personally believe Christian Nationalism is a distortion of Christianity that is in opposition to the Way of Jesus which is a non-violent pursuit of justice, peace, inclusion and equality.
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We believe in religious freedom and separation of church and state. We believe in universalism and we do not proselytize. We follow the non-violent justice making way of Jesus, which honors and respects religious plurality and freedom from religious oppression.
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Yes. I believe Christian congregations should publicly oppose Christian Nationalism and name it as heresy.
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NO! Nor do I believe Christian Nationalism is in sync with the Gospels, the teaching of Jesus, his ministry or life.
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I sometimes wonder if bringing back the art of respectful public debate could be possible. The founders of our denomination, Alexander Campbell and Barton Stone often participated in public debate. Downtown Disciples take public stands through our merchandise, social media, logo etc by focusing on the inclusive justice making teaching of Jesus. For example, holding up the scriptures that are inclusive and call people to acts of justice and mercy.
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Yes. Why or why not? Republicans chose to hijack Christianity for political gain. Abortion is one example of Republicans partnering with evangelical Christians and Catholics to gain political power by manipulating the laity. Practically speaking, Christian scriptures do not speak against abortion. A scriptural case can be made to support bodily autonomy, freedom of choice and protection of women in both Christian and Jewish scriptures.
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Yes, because the Gospels portray Jesus as one who opposed the ways of Empire. It is my opinion that the average Christian who supports Christian Nationalism isn't educated on scripture and likely doesn't attend worship regularly or participate in a Christian community.
IAF Interviews St. John’s Lutheran Lead Pastor Ryan Arnold
Ryan Arnold
Lead Pastor - St. John’s Lutheran Church, Des Moines, Iowa
Interview conducted June 2025
At the end of 2024, Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers President Jason Benell attended a few events held at churches and started a series of interviews called Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism.
About the Series
Questions are asked of religious leaders via email.
Topics include their views on:
Their faith
Their congregations
Christian Nationalism
Answers are unedited, except for corrections to misspellings or grammar.
Responses come directly from the interviewees.
Purpose
The purpose of this interview series is to help us better understand how the religious and non-religious view the ongoing social, political, and cultural movement known as Christian Nationalism.
Get Involved
You are encouraged to:
Read the interviews
Come up with your own questions
Submit them to IAF
If you would like follow-ups, further discussion, or want to provide comments, email IAF at president@iowaatheists.org. We can possibly share your input with both members of IAF and the individuals being interviewed!
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Christian Nationalism is the fusing of a Christian and national identity into one. This runs counter to a traditional understanding of Christianity, where national origin has no bearing on our faith. It is bad for democracy in that it limits religious freedom for non-Christians. Christian Nationalism also runs counter to the traditional motto of the US, first adopted in 1782, the Latin phase E pluribus unum, or “Out of many, one.”
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Conflating Christianity with a national identity can be harmful and needlessly creates divisions in both church and culture. For Christians it is inconsistent with the unity we claim in Galatians 3:38, “for there is no longer Jew or Greek; there is no longer slave or free; there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” It is also inconsistent with the greatest commandment in Christianity, that we love ourneighbors as ourselves.
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Without question.
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Not at all.
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We offer educational in-services on what Christian Nationalism is, how to spot it, and the dangers it represents. There are many books on the topic that can be used for group study. We are careful not to mix our worship services with national holidays like Memorial Day, July 4 or Thanksgiving.
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Yes. It was birthed at the intersection of conservative Christianity and the Republican party. As far as I can tell there it remains.
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The Bible can be used for both. In my experience Christian Nationalists often subscribe to the belief that God is for some people and not others. This notion can be found in the Hebrew scripture, and, at first, was indeed a blessing for the Hebrew people. Ezekiel 36:28 says “Then you shall live in the land that I gave to your ancestors, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.”
Taken out of context this could be used to support Christian Nationalism. When you learn the text was written at a time when the intended audience, who was Jewish, were in exile and enslaved, the interpretation changes. God always stands on the side of the oppressed.
The addition of Jesus into our religious narrative expands this notion of who God is for even more. If God so loved the world (John 3:16) then there isn’t much space for the exclusivity that Christian nationalism espouses to faithfully exist.
IAF Interviews Vineyard Church Lead Pastor Becky Waugaman
Becky Waugaman
Lead Pastor - Vineyard Church, Des Moines, Iowa
Interview conducted April 2025
At the end of 2024, Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers President Jason Benell attended a few events held at churches and started a series of interviews called Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism.
About the Series
Questions are asked of religious leaders via email.
Topics include their views on:
Their faith
Their congregations
Christian Nationalism
Answers are unedited, except for corrections to misspellings or grammar.
Responses come directly from the interviewees.
Purpose
The purpose of this interview series is to help us better understand how the religious and non-religious view the ongoing social, political, and cultural movement known as Christian Nationalism.
Get Involved
You are encouraged to:
Read the interviews
Come up with your own questions
Submit them to IAF
If you would like follow-ups, further discussion, or want to provide comments, email IAF at president@iowaatheists.org. We can possibly share your input with both members of IAF and the individuals being interviewed!
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It is the intertwining of a love of the Christian faith and one’s country that pursues power in an egocentric and exclusive manner. As in all things we label, I think there’s a spectrum of participants who are more or less committed to the ideals and truths they defend. We need to be careful of how broadly we use the term so it doesn’t become misunderstood or unhelpful - specifically broad brushing it as Christian.
With most people naturally being “followers” and group think - I believe there are some well meaning + intentioned people that have been persuaded and/or deceived and manipulated - not fully understanding - what they are part of.
I also believe under a lot of our angst as a country and polarization is anxiety. Whether people recognize it as that, many are being moved to extremes politically due to their fears and trying to protect what they think they are losing. Both the “right” and the “left” are impacted by this right now.
I don’t believe Christian Nationalism is a good thing in a democracy. Our country was founded by people fleeing Europe for religious freedom, so it would seem we are moving towards something we didn’t want as a country. -
Simply said, I am an apprentice of Jesus and follow his life example and commands - not any specific leader or political party.
Jesus arrived announcing the kingdom of heaven was near. This was not an earthly kingdom or political structure of power. Of Jesus' closest disciples, he chose two from opposite political extremes of the day. Simon was a zealot, rebelling against Roman occupation. And Matthew had been a tax collector for Rome.
Jesus supported political power (pay unto Caesar what is due him Matt 22:21) but never sought political power in establishing the heavenly kingdom.
From my perspective, Christian Nationalism doesn’t live the way of Jesus who blessed the poor, welcomed the outsiders, and called us to love our enemies.
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I believe as followers of Jesus we are witnesses by His Spirit in the particulars of our time, place, and the world we are in. As life brings us into people’s lives and situations we should live with integrity of character in open, public spaces as we do behind closed doors and in our own homes.
My goal is to love my neighbors - everyone - regardless of political beliefs and their starting point in faith. I want to provide the opportunity for anyone to join us in community and to find Christ.
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No.
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I think of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus encourages his followers to be salt and light in the world. This is a call to how we live our lives both individually and corporately as a church. He taught us how to love those who are different from us and even our enemies.
It also depends on the situation. Jesus didn’t handle every person or situation the same way. In Matthew 10:16 sending out his apprentices he told them, Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
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I think it depends on the leaders - there seems to be a variance of leaders on both sides of the aisle and in society in general that are more extreme than others. They are definitely the ones who seem to get the most media time. It seems to be in regards to President Trump and the Republican Party right now. But I’d say there’s also a use of Christian labeling being used for politics of the Democratic Party.
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Like a hammer can be used to build or to destroy, so the Bible can be used to bring life or to beat up people - depending on the messenger. And the hearer has their role in it as well. The Bible must be approached honestly and humbly. Our biases need to be acknowledged and taken into account If we apply the Bible without love and grace we are more likely to use it as a hammer.
IAF Interviews Assistant Bishop for SE Iowa Synod ELCA Dan Kuckuck for ICCN!
Dan Kuckuck
Assistant to the Bishop for Leadership and Congregational Transitions
Interview conducted March 2025
At the end of 2024, Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers President Jason Benell attended a few events held at churches and started a series of interviews called Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism.
About the Series
Questions are asked of religious leaders via email.
Topics include their views on:
Their faith
Their congregations
Christian Nationalism
Answers are unedited, except for corrections to misspellings or grammar.
Responses come directly from the interviewees.
Purpose
The purpose of this interview series is to help us better understand how the religious and non-religious view the ongoing social, political, and cultural movement known as Christian Nationalism.
Get Involved
You are encouraged to:
Read the interviews
Come up with your own questions
Submit them to IAF
If you would like follow-ups, further discussion, or want to provide comments, email IAF at president@iowaatheists.org. We can possibly share your input with both members of IAF and the individuals being interviewed!
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Christian Nationalism is an expression of Christianity that claims a national identity as a primary expression of the faith, apart from the Christian norm that claims no national identity. In my view, it is a bad thing for democracy because it limits the sovereignty of all citizens to practice their faith, or not, without interference from the government.
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While we might believe that God could be working through national identity to achieve some good (i.e. addressing hunger, homelessness, heatlh, etc.), we do not equate national identity with God. Many would call Christian Nationalism a heresy because it places national identity in the position that should be occupied by God. In our tradition, aside from sacramental moments in worship, God is most present in the life of the neighbor, whether they are Chrisitan or not.
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Absolutely.
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They are not in sync.
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We can say clearly and confidently the way we understand God at work in the world and in nations, and clearly state that equating God's activity as primarily in the midst of any national identity is a misrepresentation of the universal nature of God's love. There are 150 member churches of the Lutheran World Federation around the world, and we understand that God is present in all our midsts.
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Yes. In my experience, Christian nationalism typically exists in right leaning spaces that have been influenced by people who have aligned themselves both with conservative Christianity and the Republican Party. To my knowledge, I have never met a democrat who is a Christian Nationalist.
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Absolutely. The New Testament is filled with stories about how God is not only a God for a single nation (Israel), but now a God for the whole world (i.e. Gentiles). The whole mission of Paul and the apostles was to carry Christianity throughout the world, not to make everyone a Judean (or Roman), but to bring their message to wherever those folks were.
IAF Interviews Baptist Executive Director Tim Lubinus on Christian Nationalism for the ICCN Series!
At the end of 2024, Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers President Jason Benell attended a few events held at churches and began a series of interviews titled Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism.
In these interviews, religious leaders are asked questions via email about:
Their views on their faith
Their congregations
How they view Christian Nationalism
The answers are published unedited—except for minor corrections to misspellings or grammar—and come directly from the respondents.
The purpose of this interview series is to help us better understand how both the religious and the non-religious view this ongoing social, political, and cultural movement known as Christian Nationalism.
You are encouraged to read these interviews, develop your own questions, and submit them to IAF. If you would like follow-ups, further discussion, or wish to provide comments, feel free to email IAF at president@iowaatheists.org. We may share your thoughts with both members of IAF and the individuals being interviewed!
Tim Lubinus, Executive Director - Baptist Convention of Iowa
Ankeny, Iowa
Interview Conducted November 2024
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Nationalism is the political ideology that defines nations, e.g., common geography, language, ethnic identity, history, etc. The way every nation defines itself describes its nationalism
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Christian Nationalism is that nationalism where a nation's political ideology is informed by the life and teaching of Jesus Christ as taught in the Bible.
I would reject any form of Americanism or statism (state worship) included in a definition of Christian Nationalism as invalid. Proper ethical definitions require the definition to fit every nation for every time.
This definition doesn't seem to fit the expected posture of "combat" with Christian Nationalism embedded in the rest of the following survey questions; likely the author of the questions has a different definition of Christianity or Christian Nationalism than the one I have used above
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To get to a common definition of Christian Nationalism, it would require a long conversation to make sure of mutual understanding of each term. If we arrived on my definition above, I would not be different from a Christian Nationalist. I would be hesitant to say this publicly because of confusion and various alternative definitions of Christian Nationalism. Of course, with some definitions, I would reject and distance myself from Christian Nationalism
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Yes, with so much heat and misunderstanding, a church should seek clarity on their stance toward a biblically driven political ideology to better serve their church members and community. While seeking clarity on political ideology, the church will likely touch on issues related to Christian Nationalism. However, with the number of definitions inside and outside of the church, even working toward unity in one church would be difficult and maybe not a high priority for the church to clarify.
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Even with the definition above, only partially, but not completely in sync.
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This question assumes a negative opinion of Christian Nationalism... with many of these definitions, I would also reject the adoption or promotion of Christian Nationalism. Disagreement on important issues is normal. Taking a stance requires careful research, teaching, listening, correction, and patience, "The Lord's slave must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance to know the truth. Then they may come to their senses and escape the Devil's trap, having been captured by him to do his will, 2 Timothy 2:24-26.
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Even with the definition above, only partially, but not completely in sync.
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This question assumes a negative opinion of Christian Nationalism... with many of these definitions, I would also reject the adoption or promotion of Christian Nationalism. Disagreement on important issues is normal. Taking a stance requires careful research, teaching, listening, correction, and patience, "The Lord's slave must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance to know the truth. Then they may come to their senses and escape the Devil's trap, having been captured by him to do his will, 2 Timothy 2:24-26.
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I would say no. Neither of the national parties promote Christian Nationalism or identify as I would say no. Neither of the national parties promote Christian Nationalism or identify as such.
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Yes, the Bible is a useful tool in for foundational beliefs as well as for personal and corporate ethics.
IAF interviews Pastor Eric Pasanchin for the Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism series!
This is the response from Pastor Eric Pasanchin to IAF’s Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism interview series
At the end of 2024, Iowa Atheists and Freethinkers President Jason Benell attended a few events held at churches and started a series of interviews called Iowa Christians on Christian Nationalism.
About the Series
Questions are asked of religious leaders via email.
Topics include their views on:
Their faith
Their congregations
Christian Nationalism
Answers are unedited, except for corrections to misspellings or grammar.
Responses come directly from the interviewees.
Purpose
The purpose of this interview series is to help us better understand how the religious and non-religious view the ongoing social, political, and cultural movement known as Christian Nationalism.
Get Involved
You are encouraged to:
Read the interviews
Come up with your own questions
Submit them to IAF
If you would like follow-ups, further discussion, or want to provide comments, email IAF at president@iowaatheists.org. We can possibly share your input with both members of IAF and the individuals being interviewed!
Eric Pasanchin, Pastor
Ankeny Presbyterian Church (U.S.A)
Ankeny, Iowa
Interview conducted October 2024
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First of all, so-called “Christian” nationalism has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus. It is a complete betrayal of everything he stood for. The nationalists who use faith to justify their beliefs are misusing religious texts, often ones written by, to, and for Ancient Israelites. Taking those texts out of context, they are then twisted to serve a racist, sexist, anti-LGBTQIA+, political message in the modern world. This is bad history, bad theology, and bad for humanity all around.
The Presbyterian Church (USA) explicitly includes in its statements of faith a document called “The Barmen Declaration of Faith”, which was written in the 1930’s to oppose the German “Christian” movement, a popular movement in Germany to turn the church into a tool of the Nazi party. We include that declaration in our statements of faith as a clear reminder that Christians’ loyalty is first and foremost to our creator and God’s vision for a just and peaceful world not to any nation, political leader, or ideology.
Whether you accept the premise of a creator or not, you could at least say that we are dedicated to the well-being of all humans of every race, nation, or worldly condition
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Hell yes.
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Not even remotely. There is just no way they could be.
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First of all, hosting the film “God and Country” was one way of educating our members and the public about the error of such nationalism. We have also offered book studies that get at the issue.
Secondly, in our messaging – both internal and external – we emphasize the sacred worth of every person regardless of nationality, race, gender, orientation, or any other distinguishing factor. We have used our church sign, social media, and direct mail to share this message.
Clarity of message and establishing a clear alternative is the point. Getting directly into arguments with the nationalists does not seem like a productive activity.
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It has been an under-current in the Republican party for years, and is now a large part of their base. The Democratic party does not espouse the same values, and consequently does not appeal to the “Christian” nationalists.
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Inclusive of men, women, children, outcasts, sinners, and foreigners.
Non-violent and committed to the poor (and poor himself).
Sharing spiritual and material resources as a central part of his program.
Teaching forgiveness, generosity, and sacrifice for the common good.
Rejecting human empires.